Space & Astronomy/Space and Astronomy (October 1993).iso/pc/text/spacedig/v13_7/v13_767.txt

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Subject: SPACE Digest V13 #767

SPACE Digest                                     Volume 13 : Issue 767

Today's Topics:
        Galileo probe hears AM radio stations
             Re: Access to Space
              Re: anti-gravity?
        Giotto - first Earth gravity assist manoeuvre?
        Re: IGY and the dawn of the Space Age
             Re: Access to Space
  Re: Platinum-group metal concentrations in earth-crossing objects
           Re: future total eclipse occurence data
               Re: Mars "face"
             Re: Mining El Dorado
               Re: Mars "face"
          Re: Galileo probe hears AM radio stations

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Date: 18 Jun 91 19:16:45 GMT
From: att!cbfsb!cbnewsb.cb.att.com![e-mail]  (robert.f.casey)
Subject: Galileo probe hears AM radio stations


In the June 8 Science News (vol 139, page 356), at the end of article
"Startling Tales from the Magnetotail" the last paragraph says that
Galileo's plasma wave detector detected AM radio station signals when
the probe was in the Earth's magnetic tail.  Guess this sets a record
for the longest DX of AM stations!  The article doesn't say which band
it heard the stations, But here in USA, AM is usually means MW.

------------------------------

Date: 18 Jun 91 22:40:54 GMT
From: unmvax!uokmax![e-mail]  (Robert W Murphree)
Subject: Re: Access to Space

[e-mail] (Allen W. Sherzer) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

>>We could also have a thriving space exploration
>>and science program if the greedy astronaut programs were not soaking
>>up the bulk of the funds.

>In the short run, yes. In the long run we are far better off building the
>infrastructure. Doing so wold reduce costs to LEO and permit a lot more
>to be done. Eventually we would get to the point where PhD students could
>send their own probes out. That will produce far more results in the long
>run than your short term approach.

>>The Europeans have quite substantial access to space via Ariane and Giotto,
>>et. al., with astronauts nowhere  in sight.

>And yet they still feel the need to build Hermes so they can have a manned
>program. In fact, ALL the spacefaring nations either have or are building
>manned systems at great expense. Perhaps they know something?

Actually, James Oberg once talked on macneil leher report about the soviet
buran shuttle.  He said that basically it was a make work project for the
soviet space agencies involved.  What other nations know is that basically
there is great prestige to manned space and less for unmanned.  But I don't
think there is any real use for shuttles except to make nasa video clips.

------------------------------

Date: 19 Jun 91 01:21:15 GMT
From: munnari.oz.au!bruce!trlluna!titan!andromeda![e-mail]  (kam hung soh)
Subject: Re: anti-gravity?

[e-mail] (Brett Kottmann) writes:

>    In demonstrations, the apparatus lifts against gravity (it is balanced
>beforehand with an equal weight via balance arm).

I saw this once on ``Beyond 2000'', and if I remember correctly, the
gadget is driven by an internal combustion engine.  Unfortunately,
because the gadget is consuming fuel, it will become lighter.  In
addition, the vibration caused by the motor would upset the balance
arm.

Whether he did or did not discover an anti-gravity device is hard to
say, but he should be more careful with his measurements before
declaring anything.

Regards,

------
Soh, Kam Hung      email: [e-mail]     tel: [phone]
Telecom Research Laboratories, POB 249 Clayton, Victoria 3168, Australia

------------------------------

Date: 17 Jun 91 08:53:51 GMT
From: psuvm!esoc![e-mail]  (Lutz Massonne)
Subject: Giotto - first Earth gravity assist manoeuvre?

As far as I remember, ICE used MOON fly-bys to get away from
its Lagrange point position.
That was a rather complicated task (NASA produced a nice brochure
showing the very complex orbit as they needed a lot of moon fly-bys
to achieve the orbital velocity to get away from earth)
to re-use this probe never foreseen to be a comet explorer,
but Giotto really did the first controlled earth-gravity assist
manoeuvre (shortly before Galileo :-) ).

Regards, Lutz Massonne

------------------------------

Date: 18 Jun 91 16:09:02 GMT
From: cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!uwm.edu!ogicse!sequent!muncher.sequent.com![e-mail]
Subject: Re: IGY and the dawn of the Space Age

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

>...The expectation of NASA and the
>Kennedy Administration was that success with Apollo would
>result in public enthusiasm for further manned exploration.

Which turned out to be completely wrong, as the funding precipitously
declined during Apollo.  Did NASA learn the lesson?  Sadly, no.


>However, by the time of the first moon landing, the mood of the media
>had completely changed.

The media is part of the U.S. body politic, right?  If you can't
influence the media, you are going to have a much tougher time
convincing the citizens.


>For example, Life Magazine chose as their
>main writer about the effort Norman Mailer.

Who put out some of the most poetic prose ever written about space.
Most of the stuff the astronauts said ("Gee, Earth looks beautiful
from up here!") is downright silly by comparison.  You forgot to
mention David Bowie, who wrote "Space Oddity" around this time:

For here I am
Floating in a tin can
Far above the world
Planet Earth is blue
And there's nothing I can do

Bowie captured the essence of the uselessness of launching pilots in
tin cans.   This remains the most popular song about the 60's era
spaceflights, and it is especially popular with intellectuals and
opinion makers.  The media, a good chunk of the American public,
scientists, space explorers, space defense and commercial space industry
understood.  The NASA leadership still doesn't get it.


>Recall that George McGovern said that if he were elected President in
>1972 and if Apollo were launched in late December before he took
>office, there wouldn't be any aircraft carriers to pick up the
>astronauts after he took office.  I think it was a joke.

There is no doubt that McGovern, and the more popular politicians such
as Humphrey, Proxmire, Mondale, et. al. would have trashed NASA completely
as a response to the percieved waste of Apollo.   When you spend billions
on a highly visible government project, you become a target.



--
Nick Szabo            [e-mail]
Embrace Change...  Keep the Values...  Hold Dear the Laughter...
These views are my own, and do not represent any organization.

------------------------------

Date: 18 Jun 91 21:47:18 GMT
From: prism![e-mail]  (Matthew DeLuca)
Subject: Re: Access to Space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Allen W. Sherzer) writes:
[In reply to Nick Szabo]

>Communication satellites are NOT self sustaining because they only
>pay incrimental launch costs. This is true for both the US and all
>world providers.

Well, depends on your point of view.  From the perspective of the companies
launching the satellites, the (IMHO the appropriate point of view) the
satellites are indeed 'self-sustaining' (is this another term for
profitable?) since they produce more revenue over their lifetimes than it
costs them to build and launch.  This is practically a tautology, since
companies would not be in the comsat business were this not true.

Now, if you take into account all the 'hidden' costs behind the launching
of the satellite, are you saying that the comsats would no longer be
worth launching?
--
Matthew DeLuca
Georgia Institute of Technology      "I'd hire the Dorsai, if I knew their
Office of Information Technology      P.O. box."  - Zebadiah Carter,
Internet: [e-mail]    _The Number of the Beast_

------------------------------

Date: 18 Jun 91 22:25:34 GMT
From: cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!ox.com!fmsrl7![e-mail]  (Ron Carter)
Subject: Re: Platinum-group metal concentrations in earth-crossing objects

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Steven King) writes:
>   Of course, all of this presumes that even if you were to get
> there and the processes were viable, that the asteriod is yours
> to mine. International law, as I understand it, is less than clear
> on this issue.  A few billion in precious metals might buy a lot
> of influence, but it would also buy a lot of envy.

Q:    How do spacers pay their taxes?
A:    In gold and platinum, at terminal velocity.

The nice thing about moving ton-sized payloads around space is that
you can always arrange to drop one, or a few.  (Use slag or iron,
that way nobody is going to WANT to be the recipient.)  If someone
gets too envious, you can at least make them keep their head down.

I'd suggest paying taxes to the USA or EEC, which are not going
to want to jeapordize their revenue stream and will defend it
against other entities.

------------------------------

Date: 17 Jun 91 06:38:03 GMT
From: agate!sprite.berkeley.edu![e-mail]  (Steve Strange)
Subject: Re: future total eclipse occurence data

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Olivier Schreiber) writes:
>
>
>Is there such data as the locations/dates of future total eclipses sites
>in the near future?
>
>I mean, by missing this particular upcoming one, when is my next chance
>to see a total eclipse in my lifetime.
>

I think the next one in North America is in 2017 or so.  So we've got
a long wait.

There is an excellent book called Eclipse, or Solar Eclipse, that just
came out to take advantage of the July 11 eclipse market.  I saw it in
the Nature Company stores in Berkeley - if there is a Nature Co. near
you, you might take a look.  It's got a map of the world marked with
the paths of totality of the next 100 years of eclipses.

        Steve

------------------------------

Date: 12 Jun 91 14:52:44 GMT
From: cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!mcdphx!hrc!gtx![e-mail]  (Alan Filipski)
Subject: Re: Mars "face"

Instead of a bunch of amateur interpretations of this picture, it would
be interesting to get a professional's opinion.  There are people who
spend their entire careers interpreting satellite and aerial recon
photos.  Most of them work for the government, but many are retired.
Have any of these people given an opinion on the photos?


  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 ( Alan Filipski, GTX Corp, 8836 N. 23rd Avenue, Phoenix, Arizona 85021, USA )
 ( {decvax,hplabs,uunet!amdahl,nsc}!sun!sunburn!gtx!al         [phone] )
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

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Date: 17 Jun 91 17:38:41 GMT
From: agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!hellgate.utah.edu!caen!dali.cs.montana.edu!ogicse!sequent!muncher.sequent.com![e-mail]
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
Subject: Re: Mining El Dorado
References: <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James Davis Nicoll) writes:

>    If there's some painfully obvious reason you used the delta Ek and
>the .01 second values you did, take it as written I pound my head shapeless
>in contrition.

No, I was being pretty arbitrary.  The energy of the explosion is given
off over less than .01 seconds.   The actual sound shock wave propagation
takes on the order of 1 second.  The power output of a nuclear explosion
might blast a cold metal asteroid into smitherenes.  That's what I get for
brainstorming on the net.  :-)

For a more accurate analysis, we need to look at the actual results of
underground nuclear tests.


--
Nick Szabo            [e-mail]
Embrace Change...  Keep the Values...  Hold Dear the Laughter...
These views are my own, and do not represent any organization.

------------------------------

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Date: 18 Jun 91 03:00:41 GMT
From: cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!munnari.oz.au!metro!socs.uts.edu.au!syzygy![e-mail]  (Dan Corbett)
Subject: Re: Mars "face"
References: <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Alan Filipski) writes:

>Instead of a bunch of amateur interpretations of this picture, it would
>be interesting to get a professional's opinion.
> [...]
>Have any of these people given an opinion on the photos?

I used to work in AI for The Analytic Sciences Corporation, and I knew the
guys who worked in TASC's image analysis lab in Boston.  They were asked by
NASA to interpret the "face" image.  They merged a few photos, and looked
at various lighting angles.  What they came up with finally (after a lot of
analysis) was a couple of hills. No face, no ruins, no cities, nothing special.
That one picture that produced the face was just taken at exactly the right
angle and lighting to produce the "face."

No, I *don't* know how to get any technical reports out of these people, and
I don't have their phone numbers/e-mail addresses/whatever.  Try the Boston
phone book.  Don't ask me, I moved to Australia years ago.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Corbett
Dept. of Computer Science
University of Technology, Sydney
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

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Date: 18 Jun 91 20:19:36 GMT
From: att!cbnews!cbnewsl![e-mail]  (Stuart Warmink)
Organization: Interface Systems @ Bell Labs
Subject: Re: Galileo probe hears AM radio stations
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (robert.f.casey) writes:
> In the June 8 Science News (vol 139, page 356), at the end of article
> "Startling Tales from the Magnetotail" the last paragraph says that
> Galileo's plasma wave detector detected AM radio station signals when
> the probe was in the Earth's magnetic tail.  Guess this sets a record
> for the longest DX of AM stations! [...]

But the only two times that Galileo was anywhere near the Earth's magnetotail,
Galileo was relatively close to Earth, surely? At launch it was inside the
Van Allen belts, so that may not even count - and immediatly after launch
it may well have been in the magnetotail for a short while, but because
of Galileo's trajectory (towards the Sun) it couldn't have been for very
long, if it went through it at all. But the instruments hadn't been powered
up anyway!

The second time was during last December's fly-by. Can't remember the exact
distance, but it was on the order of a few hundred miles at closest
approach I think. Before and after closest approach Galileo would have been
in the magnetotail too, but as it was traveling at right angles to the tail
Galileo couldn't have encountered it too far from Earth? Just wondering...

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stuart Warmink, Whippany, NJ, USA  |  [e-mail]  |  Atoms are Good
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stuart Warmink, Whippany, NJ, USA  |  [e-mail]  |       Hi!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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End of SPACE Digest V13 #767
*******************